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Review of I W Jamieson & Co
Debt management training, Ian Jamieson

We are also registered with the Office of Fair Trading and licenced under The Consumer Credit Act 1974. Registration No. 549369 . It is also a legal requirement to be registered with the Data Protection Controller. Our registration No. Z1235931.

The Office of Fair Trading introduced new guidelines in April 2008 to ensure that only companies that are able to prove that they have the necessary experience and skills operate in our profession. The department now undertake to make personal on site visits to interview applicants of licences to ensure they meet the standards required.

We are members of Chamber Of Commerce and Chartered Institute of Management. There are Companies that advertise in the National Press that give the impression that substantial amounts of debts can be written off simply by contacting them. Whilst the aim is to reduce the amount owed, this decision remains at the sole discretion of Creditors.

Review:

I W Jamieson & Co advertise in the Sunday papers offering positions for "Mature Business Executives". The opportunity is to receive training in order to start up a debt management business.

The I W Jamieson & Co information pack gives examples of earnings at £125/£250 for a consultation and a minimum fee of £2,000 for setting up an Individual Voluntary Arrangement.

The training Ian Jamieson offers is a two day course costing £2,850 plus VAT and this includes training, full board hotel accommodation, course materials and your own credit licence and data protection licence.

Your job after you had been trained by I W Jamieson & Co would be to follow up leads and go to visit people who are interested in your service. And Ian Jamieson says that "if required, a representative from our Company will accompany you on your initial appointments and you will always be able to make telephone contact whilst you are with a client. There will be no extra charge for this assistance, regardless of travelling distance. Of course ongoing training will continue for as long as required."

As noted in the review for a similar-sounding offer from National Debt Advisors (BOW March 2009)

There is certainly a large and increasing number of people with debt problems.

The big question is, how easily could you tap into this demand with this course?

On the face of it, this would be difficult because there are two major charities which offer free, independent advice and practical help. These charities are funded by the credit industry, which enables them to offer unbiased and free advice to consumers.

- The first is the Consumer Credit Counselling Service www.cccs.co.uk tel: 0800 138 1111. On their website you can complete a full counselling session online, which is free and confidential.

- The second is a charity called the Money Advice Trust who run the National Debtline www.nationaldebtline.co.uk tel: 0808 808 4000.

And for businesses, there is Business Debtline, www.bdl.org.uk, tel. 0800 197 6026. This service offers free, confidential and independent advice and is funded by the DTI and seven UK banks.

Debtors can also seek advice from their local Citizens Advice Bureau.

In addition, and without any reference to National Debt Advisors but as a comment on the debt management industry as a whole, it should be noted that setting up in business as a debt management advisor has not been helped by the adverse publicity given to the practices of some debt management companies who charge upfront and ongoing fees without improving a debtor's position. For example, arrangements marketed as "savings" on monthly payments may simply increase the size of the sum to be repaid and potentially affect the consumer's credit record. (See Press Release PN/48/01 from the Office of Fair Trading entitled OFT Guidance To Tackle Bad Practice By Debt Management Companies.)

Nevertheless, despite an increasing wariness of debt management companies in general, and despite having free access to the best advice of precisely what to do in their specific circumstances, many people with debt problems simply want someone to take the whole burden off them and do it all for them.

The key requirement for the success of any debt management business is having a good supply of quality leads. Ian Jamieson says that he guarantees to supply you with at least 50 prospects per week.

We contacted Ian Jamieson to ask him about the source of these leads and various other questions, as follows:

Dear Mr. Jamieson

I publish an online magazine at www.businessopportunitywatch.com which researches and reviews all kinds of home business opportunities, franchises and other earnings and investment opportunities.

A couple of years ago a reader had seen an I W Jamieson & Co advert in a Sunday newspaper advertising positions available for "Mature Business Executives". He sent me a copy of the letter you sent him and asked my advice about the training you offer to set up an insolvency business. I had a brief look at that time and advised the reader to ask you for further details about the source and the quality of the guaranteed 50 leads per week.

I was recently asked for advice once more about the I W Jamieson & Co course, by someone who had again seen your advert in a Sunday paper, so it seemed that a proper review was called for. I have now carried out my review, and to help me conclude it I should be most grateful if you would let me have the answers to the following questions.

1. The key to success with the I W Jamieson & Co opportunity is to have good quality leads. I understand that you guarantee to supply your consultants with 50 prospects every week. Could you indicate the source of these leads? Obviously, the contact details of people who have been served with County Court Judgements are widely available, so such people are likely to be inundated with offers of help from debt management companies. Do your leads come from lists of County Court Judgements or are they leads generated by your own advertising?
   
   
2. If the I W Jamieson & Co leads are generated by your own advertising, then could you please indicate where you normally advertise.
   
   
3. The I W Jamieson & Co website at www.iwjamieson.co.uk, which was registered only a few months ago on 8th February 2009, says that you are licensed under The Consumer Credit Act 1974 and you hold registration number 549369. However, according to the public register on the website of the Office of Fair Trading, this licence lapsed on 8th February 2009. Is this a mistake?
   
   
4. I also noted from the public register that you previously had a Consumer Credit Licence under the name of a company called Executive Home Improvements Ltd, which traded under five trading names: Alpha Finance Co., Bury Building Co., Country Kitchens, Executive Windows and The Natural Stonefacing Co. Oddly, although according to Companies House records this company was dissolved on 26th November 1991, the licence in its name only lapsed about 6 years later on 7th February 1998. The telephone number for your insolvency consultancy business also seems to belong to a driveway paving company called Millennium Driveways of the same address.
   
   Could you please advise whether you are now an insolvency specialist or whether you continue to be in the building trade too?
   
   
5. I am very confused about your qualifications. Your website seems to imply that you are a Licensed Insolvency Practitioner because it says that "The Office of Fair Trading introduced new guidelines in April 2008 to ensure that only companies that are able to prove that they have the necessary experience and skills operate in our profession". However, these guidelines don't refer to the insolvency or debt management profession: instead, they refer to new powers given to the OFT to monitor holders of consumer credit licences.
   
   A reader sent me a letter from you dated May 2007 in which you state after your signature that you are a "Licensed Insolvency Consultant". Could you please explain what you mean by that?
   
   According to my research, in order to be licensed in insolvency you need to be authorised to do so either by the Secretary of State or by one of the authorising bodies (i.e. the Association of Certified Chartered Accountants, the Institute of Chartered Accountants, the Insolvency Practitioners Association, the Solicitors Regulation Authority or the Law Society of Scotland).
   
   Most people who are licensed in insolvency use the term Licensed Insolvency Practitioner. When I keyed in the term Licensed Insolvency Consultant into Google, one of the top references was to written evidence presented to the Business and Enterprise Committee in the House of Commons by the Association of Business Recovery Professionals for their Sixth Report on The Insolvency Service of 6th May 2009. The terms "licensed insolvency consultant" were highlighted in the following paragraph of their evidence:
   
   "Insolvency work is highly skilled, requiring experience and extensive training. We believe the interests of those who we serve is damaged by the activities of those who purport to be qualified, using mimicking terms like "licensed insolvency consultant" or simply "insolvency practitioner". We seek the Service's support to have the word "insolvency practitioner" designated "words cognate", thereby affording greater protection to the public and our members. Alternatively, we call upon them (and other branches of government, e.g. the OFT) to act quickly and decisively to counter misleading and damaging behaviour by such unlicensed "experts" (sic)."
   
   As you yourself are an Associate member of the Association of Business Recovery Professionals, perhaps you were already aware of this submission?
   
   Although I at first assumed that Associate membership of the Association of Business Recovery Professionals meant that the person holds a professional qualification, in fact this is not the case. Associate membership of this association is "available to anyone working substantially with insolvency or business recovery and who may not be eligible for full or student membership" whilst "full members and students are all required to be regulated by a Recognised Professional Body".
   
   Whilst there is no suggestion that you had any intention to mislead, I should be grateful for your clarification. Perhaps at the same time you could clarify the qualification you say you have in the following sentence from your website:
   
   "We are members of Chamber of Commerce and Chartered Institute of Management."
   
   There is a body called the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants ("a leading membership body that offers a globally recognised professional management accounting qualification") and another called the Chartered Management Institute ("the only chartered professional body that is dedicated to management and leadership"). But there is no organisation called the Chartered Institute of Management. Please explain.
   
   
6. If you yourself are not licensed to carry out insolvency work, then it means that you can only be an "introducer". Therefore you can only give broad generic advice (e.g. "I suggest you enter an Individual Voluntary Arrangement"). You can't give any advice on any company's specific products.
   
   In this case, people you are introducing to the insolvency business by training them through I W Jamieson & Co and setting them up as part of your network will be in exactly the same position as you i.e. restricted to being merely "introducers". Therefore, with any arrangement which is set up by your trainees with a client, the fees will have to be shared three ways i.e. firstly the trainee as introducer, secondly I W Jamieson & Co as a second introducer and thirdly the qualified insolvency practitioner to whom I assume you have to pass the work. Does that mean that your trainees will not receive much commission?
   
   
7. Since you have been running the I W Jamieson & Co courses for two years, you presumably now have a number of people successfully set up as independent regional consultants with your company. Would it be possible for people interested in your course to contact some of these people, in order to obtain a grassroots view of the business? This would be particularly helpful if the list of contacts were to contain people who have been running their businesses for a few months or more.

I look forward to your reply. If you have any questions in the meantime, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely
Marian Owen
Editor of Business Opportunity Watch

We never received any reply from Ian Jamieson. (See Update below - reply received 18th January 2010)

Rating (amended from Zero out of Ten to Five out of Ten in view of Ian Jamieson's reply - see below):

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Update 19th January 2010


On 18th January 2010 we received the following reply from Ian Jamieson, who has just been issued with a new Consumer Credit Licence and who said he had not received our original letter.

Here are his replies to the questions we raised:

1. The leads referred to are contact details obtained from Business Pro (Stubbs Gazette). This is stated in the paperwork which is sent to the people who initially contact us. It is true that this information is public knowledge. However, this is merely a starting point in that the data refers to Companies and Sole Traders who are in financial difficulty. Another source of business is when the associate contacts the creditor on behalf of the debtor. Invariably they themselves are in financial difficulty.
   
   I don't advise writing to members of the public. As you say, there are outlets that give free advice.
   
   Also, they tend to want someone to see them at their home and of an evening or weekend. The debtor invariably wants to be seen on their own in an attempt to keep the problem away from the spouse.
   
   Companies and Sole Traders don't tend to contact these organizations. Appointments are within business hours and at trading premises.
   
   
2. The only form of advertising I conduct myself, is via the website and very occasionally, an A5 magazine which is delivered to households within a 10 mile radius. This advert and my letters to County Court registrations steer the reader to my website. I also send introductory letters to businesses listed in the Business Yellow Pages which provide a good source of business. I also recommend delegates to join The Chamber of Commerce and Business Link to enable them to attend Breakfast Networking Meetings.
   
   
3. The Office of Fair Trading have in the last 2 years undergone major changes. The first was to move premises from Ealing to Salisbury Square. The second major change was to introduce new guidelines to holders of Consumer Credit Licences. (OFT 366) (OFT 147) (OFT CCP1).
   
   The OFT were to introduce the new requirements in September 08. However, someone decided to introduce them in April 08. it was decided that all licence applications would be frozen. The new regime was to include home/business premises visits. I was informed that existing licence holders could continue using their existing licence but not include any changes until a new licence had been issued. Incidentally, whilst all this was going on, the OFT have increased the fee from £130 to £480. My new licence was issued to me on 5th January 2010. No. 628293
   
   
4. The Companies you refer to sound rather grand but, I originally started Country Kitchens supplying fitted kitchens to members of the public and on occasion commercially via the likes of new build for the Salvation Army hostels. A neighbour was an architect and was able to allow me to provide a quote.
   
   I often came across a client who wanted the new kitchen fitted into a new extension. And was experiencing the non arrival of a builder. Hence the opportunity to enter the building profession.
   
   Executive Windows was also an opportunity to provide a comprehensive home improvement package to the client. The businesses were doing extremely well and I introduced Alpha Finance to provide a lending facility to clients that had been refused finance by the Company I submitted application to. These were mainly small amounts and didn't present too much of a risk.
   
   The Company that were manufacturing my windows went into liquidation and I bought the Company from the liquidator. This was the start of my interest in the insolvency business.
   
   Everything was going according to plan until I received notice from Bury Council (our landlords) that they had sold the site to B&Q and everyone in the immediate area was given notice to leave the premises within three months. I lost a great deal of money as a consequence and had to fold the company.
   
   I have been involved in the insolvency industry ever since and I have no other business interests.
   
   Business Lodge based in Bury offer office facilities and a Vertual office. You are allocated a designated phone number. They answer it and act as your receptionist. I have been with them for nearly 7 years and it would appear that Millinium Driveways had my number previously. I do not have any connection whatsoever with this Company.
   
   
5. At this point I have to take issue with you. The Major reason why the OFT introduced the new guidelines was because of the large numbers of companies being set up as Debt Management Companies. I know from personal meetings with senior officers of the OFT that that was a major concern. For example, it would seem that members of the public were being targeted and either being dealt with over the phone or, a home visit by salespeople who had had no insolvency training and were not explaining all of the options available to the client. It was not being made clear that an arrangement with their creditors was merely an Informal Arrangement and was not legally binding. Also, monies received from the client were not being banked into "Clients Account".
   
   I have never implied that I am an Insolvency Practitioner. This is made very clear to all person's who contact me or have any professional dealings with me. I used to use the phrase "Licenced Insolvency Consultant". I genuinely thought this was not an issue. I took the view that I was licensed via the OFT and my application to them stated that I was applying under that description.
   
   As you rightly point out I am an Associate Member of The Association of Business Recovery Professionals (R3). I regularly receive invitations to attend training courses held by such companies as Price Waterhouse Coopers and Ernst & Young. Also, I receive legislation changes and Technical Bulletins from R3. One report covered the article which you refer to with reference to misleading titles.
   
   On reading the article I immediately dropped the wording "Licenced Insolvency Consultant".
   
   The Associate membership is a new category and is not given automatically. It is at the discretion of R3. I am a Member of The Chartered Management Institute. The point you raise was a typo error and has been addressed.
   
   
6. An Insolvency Practitioner would only be engaged if a "Formal Arrangement" is necessary. For example, any procedure that requires a County Court involvement . Individual / Company Voluntary Arrangement. And although informal, Debt Management Programmes (DMP's). liquidations are formal procedure but necessarily County Court processed.
   
   There are other instances whereby the client can be assisted that doesn't need the involvement of a Insolvency Practioner.
   
   Informal Arrangement whereby the debtor has got sufficient assets to cover their liabilities and needs time to raise the funds but, could be having to deal with Bailiff 's and litigation threats.
   
   The debtor could wish to close the Company down and is able to raise some capital which may be acceptable to his creditors to avoid a formal liquidation, whereby they would receive a less dividend.
   
   In some cases I have been successful in persuading creditors to write off their debts. This would be when the debtor has no assets and is unable to fund a Self Liquidation or Bankruptcy Petition.
   
   The type of Insolvency Practitioners I use are Begbie Traynors and DTE Leonard Curtis who are very respectable and large National companies. It is essential to use this type of IP when there are Crown debts and major National banking institutions who following discussions with the Insolvency Service and R3 , are in a position to dictate conditions contained within an arrangement.
   
   The initial assistance given by ourselves is charged for on an hourly rate. Depending on what is to be done and how long it will take, the associate is at liberty to make what charges he feels are reasonable.
   
   We always adopt the attitude of giving best practice.
   
   Bonifide IP's as aforementioned are not allowed to pay introductory fees. I am well aware that there are IP's who offer Introducer fees. The problem with this is that should a Formal Arrangement not be voted in at the Creditors Meeting stage or, it is subsequently abandoned through lack of cash, then monies have to be reaid.
   
   A debtor can be helped through a Self Petition Bankruptcy. It is always pointed out that the debtor is able to do this themselves for a cost of £510. Very often the debtor is very nervous in having to attend a hearing at County Court, interview with a District Judge and subsequently the Official Receiver.
   
   Depending on the amount of their liabilities they could apply at Court for an Administration Order or via a new legislation introduced in April 09, a Debt Relief Order. Neither require the intervention of an IP.
   
   
7. The type of people that come on to one of my Insolvency Training courses are usually over 50 years of age and have considerable business experience as Senior Managers or have run their own companies.
   
   In fact this is requested in my adverts. Chartered Accountants, FSA Associates, Registered Business Advisors and recently, a semi retired magistrate. Because this is not a franchise whereby individuals are committed to following the franchisors manual, the associate is able to devote as much or as little time has he or she is prepared to. This is mentioned because I have taken on retired and semi retired people who simply wish to earn a sufficient amount to avoid raiding savings.
   
   When interested parties respond to a "Business Opportunity" advertisement, a thorough information pack is sent out. Should the reader wish to pursue their interest further, I arrange a 2 hour meeting with them to enable both parties to explore the proposition and to see if they have the necessary business experience and compatibility. Following the meeting I supply contact details of people already with us and if required, the name of one of our IP's that they can telephone.
   
   Should they not contact me after receiving the initial information or following a meeting, I make no attempt to contact them. I simply assume that the proposition is not for them.
   
   I do not monitor individuals earnings. I do not interfere with how or when they actually work. I am always available for advice and assistance and, of course if they are with a client and need immediate legal advice. There have been three people who have attended a course, listened and learned, struck up a relationship with a local IP and simply introduced cases to receive an introductory fee. On file are the three letters that were sent to me informing me of their decision.
   
   I am able to compile a "Statement of Affairs" on behalf of the chosen IP for which I receive a small fee. This is how I make my money from cases sent to me by the associates.
   
   Should an associate wish to deal with Limited Companies only, they do not need a Consumer Credit Licence. Therefore I no longer apply for a Consumer Credit Licence on their behalf. They can simply apply at a later date if they want to deal with members of the public. However, I have replaced this with the cost of a years membership with R3, which I feel is far more worthwhile and in my opinion, if they are serious, will enable them to further their insolvency knowledge.
   
   
   I W Jamieson. AABRP..ACMI

Amended Rating

We have now amended the I W Jamieson & Co rating from zero out of ten to five out of ten in view of the following information contained in Ian Jamieson's reply of 18th January 2010:

- the fact that he now holds a Consumer Credit Licence again

- the fact that he clearly has considerable experience and knowledge of the insolvency and debt management business

- the fact that he has cleared up the confusion about his qualifications

- the fact that he gives people who respond to his advertisement a free two hour meeting to ensure that everything is clearly explained, and also offers them contact details of his existing associates.

Setting up a profitable debt management business will not, however, be easy. It is a very competitive area, and because the leads provided by Ian Jamieson are public knowledge then as soon as people's contact details are added to these lists they are likely to be bombarded by offers of help from debt managers and insolvency companies.

Your level of success in running a debt management business will therefore depend primarily on you personally building up your own contacts, and the best way to do this is locally. You need to be the type of person who enjoys meeting and talking to other business people and you need to be prepared to put yourself about. Ian Jamieson's advice to "join The Chamber of Commerce and Business Link to enable them to attend Breakfast Networking Meetings" is very valid.

You need to be prepared to spend time building up your business before you start to see the financial rewards, and you may in due course decide to obtain qualifications so that those rewards are greater.

The final word goes to Ian Jamieson:

"It is true to say that there are others who contact persons on the County Court register but they tend to be Debt Management Companies who contact members of the public and want to conduct business over the phone via call centres. Their point of contact is many miles away.

However, the debt management business I train people for is aimed at helping business people with debt problems. Business people want to talk face-to-face with someone and preferably locally. They want to be seen at their place of business.

I am sure you will agree that as in life there are no guarantees of success. However, providing the applicant has the required business background , genuine desire and commitment, they can make a success as an Insolvency Consultant.

The initial outlay can be retrieved in a very short space of time , there are no worries of outlaying vast amount of monies for stock which if not sold, has to be sold for whatever price can be obtained...office premises, staff, committed to long leases.

Finally, I can assure any person who answers my advertisement that they will be given all the facts...for and against the proposition. It is true to say that following a meeting with myself, some have simply decided that the insolvency business is either too difficult or they decide that they don't want to commit to the required effort.......I am sure we are too well aware of the adverts that continually appear in papers offering £20k per month for 10 minutes on the computer !.......I believe I offer a genuine opportunity for professional people.............."

Ian Jamieson


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